I normally don't comment on these political threads yet feel compelled to. As a disclaimer, I am an independent who thinks that both the Democrats and Republican parties are completely out of touch and out of control. Actually, at this point, I think that what the White House and Congress has done to this country in the last 25 years is nothing short of treason and should be punished accordingly - both sides of the aisle. Having said that, I think BTS list of whose to blame is pretty accurate. I think everyone saw this crisis coming but just hoped it wouldn't happen on their watch. Dawg mentioned the greed at the top and while I agree that is a problem, remember that without some element of greed there is no innovation or economic growth. Its only when greed pushes into the illegal that its a real problem. A lot of the problems we're seeing today isn't necessarily consequences of illegal activity but rather bad business decisions. The government is attempting to shield business owners (AIG, Bear Sterns)from the natural consequences of bad business decisions which is failure. I do agree that the government should in-force the law and that the likely consequence of this crisis (just like the Great Depression) is a bunch of new laws. Some of them will be good and some will not. What I'm most concerned about is that the US government is stretched so thin right now with the things BTS mentions (1 trillion in bail out money, war in Iraq/Afghanistan/"terror", social security, medicare/medicaid) I don't see how its going to stop a depression. Unfortunately for all of us, time has come to pay the piper. It will be ugly and hopefully we will come out of this mess better than before.
Doubting Bro
JoinedPosts by Doubting Bro
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54
Wrecking of United States of America
by BurnTheShips ini am almost shaking as i write this for what is happening to the capital markets, this country, and the free world.
the impact of the past two weeks' action in the financial markets, if not reversed by cooler heads, will have irreparably changed the world in a way that only terrorist attacks and acts of war have in the past.. .
nationalizing fannie mae and freddie mac, providing an emergency quasi-legal bridge loan to aig, temporarily banning short-selling on all stocks in the us, and instituting an rtc-type entity to handle the toxic waste of the financial system is economic violence on a grand scale.. .
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Will the collapse of the US financial system lead to an increase in JW's?
by jwfacts inhttp://money.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=632789 discusses that "the collapse of these pillars of the us financial system inevitably will result in the decline of the us as a financial power.
" i have received emails from jws saying this proves the end is near.
(surprise surprise, i hasten to remind them that hurricanes, floods and us economic issues are not part of the sign of the end.
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Doubting Bro
The 9-11 bump in my area was at least 15-20% but it only lasted about 3 weeks. When another attack didn't happen right away, or people remembered why the stopped coming to begin with, the numbers went right back to normal. Its kind of like a gym in January. Its completely crowed with folks trying to live up to their New Years Resolutions. By mid-Feb, its right back to the same old folks. The only difference I could see is that if we hit a major depression like the 30s, they could spin it into a 2014 date. I don't know how, but they've done it before and I'm sure they'll do it again. I really think its a matter of time before we go through another depression anyway. Its been over 70 years which means we're probably due. These things run in cycles.
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BOE letter: "presiding overseer" becomes "coordinator of the body of elders
by Billy the Ex-Bethelite inhere's the text of the letter:.
christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses.
to all bodies of elders.
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Doubting Bro
james_woods, You make a great point. Someone else mentioned about how the new Family Study night is similar to the LDS Family Home Evening program. Actually, they would be a good model for the WTS to follow. They are a very high control religion just like JWs are. I've actually spoken with Mormon missionaries at my door and they agree that while the doctrines are different, they sort of view JWs as kindred spirits. If that's the ultimate goal, they would need to sink quite a bit into the infrastructure of the congregations. LDS has stuff for little kids, youths and adult programs that the WTS just doesn't seem to care about. I just spent a little time on their website and its much better than the WT website in setting forth their views. I don't agree with them, but I was impressed. They give the impression of being a mainstream religion yet I know they are even more controlling (no coffee comes to mind) than the JWs, they practice shunning as well.
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2009 Circuit Assembly Program - Devil's crafty acts in "education"
by truthseeker infor your viewing pleasure:.
2008 2009 keep conquering the evil with the good circuit assembly of jehovahs witnesses.
saturday .
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Doubting Bro
I honestly don't remember the hatred of education being this blatant when I was a kid in the 80s. Its so over the top! The fact is that the horse is out of the barn. By giving the go ahead in the early 90s (I missed it but am almost finished my Bachelors now), they have a whole generation that has gone to college. Also, you've got folks that weren't allowed to go now seeing that they would have been better served going to college and wanting to make sure that their kids don't make the same mistake. Honestly, I know a ton of JWs with kids in college and a bunch more with kids in middle/high school who are planning on going. As Mary pointed out, the JW mindset that I'm familiar with is that the dangers of college really come with living on campus as opposed to the actual education. So, most that I've seen attend a local college. Not sure what happens when you live in an area without a university within driving distance. The more radical they become, the more passive aggressive rebellion you see among the average JW. I actually want to go to this CA so I can point out the craziness to my wife who is very pro-education.
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113
BOE letter: "presiding overseer" becomes "coordinator of the body of elders
by Billy the Ex-Bethelite inhere's the text of the letter:.
christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses.
to all bodies of elders.
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Doubting Bro
Snakes- Nice summary. I agree that any of these moves are being made to make sure control is not lost in the shuffle. Its all about setting up the structure to reduce liability while at the same time, making sure they have as much control as possible. I've had more than one CO tell me that their biggest headaches are with BOEs, not with the r&f. Sir82 - I guess your PO didn't read the Gospel accounts where Jesus was hammering the Pharisees for making long, pretentious prayers?? Funny, I was the chairman of a CA once and the CO specifically told me to limit my prayer to under 2 minutes. By the way, long public prayers has long been a pet peeve!!
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113
BOE letter: "presiding overseer" becomes "coordinator of the body of elders
by Billy the Ex-Bethelite inhere's the text of the letter:.
christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses.
to all bodies of elders.
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Doubting Bro
Billy brings up a good point "But back to the subject of PO, the position had been elevated into a headship position by [drumroll please] Botchtower Corporation themselves. One most recent example is the "Elders School" at Patterson. So, they have all the POs go through the school first to be better trained to run the congregations, right? Oops, I guess not anymore." Why are they sending all the POs to Elders School at Patterson when they are just another elder?? I saw someone suggest that perhaps they wanted to evaluate them to help determine who should be elevated to the "circuit elder" position. And why now? Why not wait until the elder school is finished? This is all part of a plan, but I'm definitely missing something right now. It's fun to speculate though! Sorry about the formatting, using firefox.
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CO compensation
by isaacaustin inhealth/auto insurance- finded by the wt correct?
(not by the congregation?).
they also get a monthly sepdning account?
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Doubting Bro
My understanding is that: health/auto expenses - This is "billed" to the local congregations each year. The "suggested" contribution is $8 per publisher (I think that's the amount). It is generally passed as a local resolution each year. The local congregations also contribute an amount to the KHAA (the WTS captive insurance program) for liability and property insurance. That "suggested" contribution is also sent in the form of a per publisher amount but I don't remember what last year's was. housing & related expenses - paid by the local circuit expenses during the week - the PO is supposed to ask the CO to submit receipts for reimbursement. If not covered by the congregation, the CO can submit to Patterson for reimbursement. I've seen information posted here about the monthly stipend - its really not that much. I honestly think the CO change is more about reducing liability than it is about saving money, although there will be savings that should filter down to the congregations in the form of lower annual billings and lower housing related expenses.
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224
News from Bethel Heavy
by cinnamon1642 inpioneer hour change is legit.
letters are being mailed out soon to all congregations for announcement in early october right before the tract campaign starts.. .
elimination of circuit overseers.
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Doubting Bro
daniel, "On another note: These new visits by local elders will probably turn into a really retarded, boring thing in a few years, just like the visits from the Service Overseers at the bookstudy. Anyone remember that lame "arrangement"? No one wants to hear some kind of "special" talk given by their own local Joe Bob Elder. And three times a year!? Goodness gracious --it's just going to be the same thing over and over again." Amen that that!! The only difference I can see is that I'm sure the circuit elders will be delivering a WTS outline as opposed to coming up with material on their own. Suggested themes: "Glory God with your valuable things", "Do not forsake our Christian meetings", and "Remember, if you don't pass out mags, you will die at the Big A".
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224
News from Bethel Heavy
by cinnamon1642 inpioneer hour change is legit.
letters are being mailed out soon to all congregations for announcement in early october right before the tract campaign starts.. .
elimination of circuit overseers.
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Doubting Bro
Snakes, Great thought on the MTS boys. I didn't even think about them but given their level of indoctrination, they would make perfect "circuit elders". Plus, a few that I've met have delusions of grandeur and this will feed right into that. On the timetable regarding the real estate, I'm thinking this is just in response to the market being down. If the market were to rebound or someone to offer them higher than market price for their properties, they will jump on it (like any good business man would do). Once I started recognizing the WTS as a business instead of a religion, all of their decisions became so easy to understand and anticipate.
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224
News from Bethel Heavy
by cinnamon1642 inpioneer hour change is legit.
letters are being mailed out soon to all congregations for announcement in early october right before the tract campaign starts.. .
elimination of circuit overseers.
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Doubting Bro
This sounds legit. The only thing I'm surprised about is that instead of choosing 1 local PO to be the new CO, they're going to use a committee approach. If you take the average 20 congos in a circuit and split it up among 4 guys, that's only 5 congregations per person (or 5 guys and then 4 per). This almost sounds like there will be a "super-BOE" for the circuit. How about a new title "Circuit Elder"? Think about it. This actually could help them with both the impending shortage of COs as well as help deal with the loss of local elders that they've been facing for some time. Getting men to "reach out" is becoming more and more difficult and they even had a DC part about that subject this year. I think the possibility exists for either 1) the continued consolidation of congregations (especially English for the moment) or 2) the elimination of local BOEs. I recall when I was an elder picking up on the disdain the WTS/COs/DOs had for local BOEs in general. It was barely disguised in various communications. So, if you had a circuit BOE and then allowed meeting parts etc to be handled by MS or some new title (bring back Congregation Servants and have them do much of the work the elders do now but no JCs) you could come away with even more control because you could select the most hard core company men to serve on the circuit body. Every BOE that I've seen has always had its mix of conservative and liberal elders. You can't get rid of the liberal ones because there's too much administrative work to do. But, this way you could still have them do the grunt work, but greatly limit their influence. Also, you eventually wouldn't need as many men.